Nicholas Smith on Feb 11, 2008 at 12:38 AM:

Red Bull is bad for you!

p.s. a very high member of SDS admitted that instances of domestic violence are frequent among its members. This member asked to remain anonymous in fear that he/she too might be targeted by this violence.

I never would have guessed that. But since I heard it, it must be true.

I have to ask, why are 28,000 students paying for resources that less than 5% of them use? Seems extremely irresponsible to make everyone foot the bill. These resource centers need to become self-sufficient and stop relying on student's lunch money to pay multiple bloated salaries for their directors.

Just wondering... on Feb 11, 2008 at 06:25 AM:

Why should a MAN have to fund the women's resource center? There's no resource center for men... we know that it would be branded as sexist and forcing a majority on students, but it's actually pretty stupid that women are the majority at UWM, and yet they need their own resource center.

Why should anyone who's straight and/or opposed to homosexuality be forced to fund its resource center? When the answer to don't like abortion, don't have one! is the answer, and people who are disgusted by homosexuality are told to get over it or look the other way, why should they be forced to have their noses rubbed in it?

way to get on the bus two months after something happened. you're a pretty bright journalist.

AJ Piwarun on Feb 11, 2008 at 10:13 AM:

Burseth, Put down the picket signs and pick up a Senate nomination form. I'll personally hand you one. I'm in EG79.

Daniel V. Bahr on Feb 11, 2008 at 11:19 AM:

Jay,

The "Student Aristocracy" is proud to report that athletics DID NOT get in increase. Reports of a $0.70 increase are simply not correct. Check the final budget.

Dan

Jay Burseth on Feb 11, 2008 at 11:47 AM:

Dan - Nothing was in this editorial about an increase to athletics. I am sorry, you must have misread. But I am excited that my "student aristocracy" term is catching on.

AJ - The next time I write an editorial, I will make sure I don't use my picket sign pen. Good suggestion. It was getting kind of difficult to write with. So thank you. I will use Senate nomination forms for the next one.

Nicholas - Everything I said were based off of first hand accounts and senate transcripts. Nice try with making up the domestic abuse allegations. It's really difficult to believe that a peace group of mostly devoted pacifists would be violent. But if you would like to report these violent members of SDS, the Milwaukee Police department number is 414-933-4444 and the UWM police number is 414-229-4627. I highly recommend you to report domestic violence. Also, the women's resource center would also assist the abused in multiple ways.

Brian Averill on Feb 11, 2008 at 11:52 AM:

To "Just Wondering"

When you hear the terms majority/minority referred to in terms of gender, sexuality, race, etc. they refer to power rather than numerical figures. Therefore you can have a majority of women, African Americans, etc., but they're still a minority because their is a great disparity in power.

Johanan Raatz on Feb 11, 2008 at 12:03 PM:

"When you hear the terms majority/minority referred to in terms of gender, sexuality, race, etc. they refer to power rather than numerical figures. Therefore you can have a majority of women, African Americans, etc., but they're still a minority because their is a great disparity in power."

One has to look beyond the disparities of power though. Inequality alone does not equal injustice. There are other factors involved one needs to look at. The problem I have with critical theory and thus also political correctness is that it is designed to short-circuit over these other factors and make all justice exclusively about inequality which it isn't.

The resource centers are just extensions of critical theory ideology. Kudos to the student government for defunding them. We need less political correctness not more of it.

Johanan Raatz on Feb 11, 2008 at 12:09 PM:

"a very high member of the Student Aristocracy (who will remain anonymous) even admitted there is sexism and outright bigotry within the Senate. She/he elaborated on the fact that many members of the SA frequently voice their strong sexist views in Senate meetings."

How exactly are "sexist" and "bigotry" being defined here? If it's in terms of more of that PC ideology then by all means let's have more of it.

Johanan Raatz on Feb 11, 2008 at 12:47 PM:

I know let's give back the LGBT and Women's resource center funding so long as we get to have a Men's resource center a straight resource center, and a crisis pregnancy outreach center.

I don't know if PC ideology will like that very much but at least it would be fair.

John Brown on Feb 11, 2008 at 01:25 PM:

Fair is when a group pretends to democratically represent a diverse student body of 25,000 after receiving a whopping 1,199 votes.

What a mandate.

And Johanan, when a senator argues in a senate meeting that "rape victims don't need a resource center, they can just open the yellow pages," is that a problem of political incorrectness or is that maybe a comment that should offend all decent, thinking people?

P.S. - Sorry to open a can of worms, but Abraham Lincoln was not an abolitionist. I was.

Johanan Raatz on Feb 11, 2008 at 02:26 PM:

"And Johanan, when a senator argues in a senate meeting that "rape victims don't need a resource center, they can just open the yellow pages," is that a problem of political incorrectness or is that maybe a comment that should offend all decent, thinking people?"

I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with them pushing a PC agenda with that though. The Women's Resource Center has helped sponsor several events that are distinctly not politically neutral. Now if we had a Crisis Pregnancy Help Center on campus that also dealt with things like rape I wouldn't have the same problem as it would balance the ideological content out, but that isn't the case.

I have a problem with institutionalized PC in general.

Kyle Duerstein on Feb 11, 2008 at 02:44 PM:

Jay-

I encourage you to read my response, posted on my blog, with a link to the public records I cited and criticized which you somehow insist are confidential emails. http://panthertalklive.blogspot.com/2008/02/three-months-later-and-theyre-still.html

Kyle Duerstein on Feb 11, 2008 at 02:44 PM:

Jay-

I encourage you to read my response, posted on my blog, with a link to the public records I cited and criticized which you somehow insist are confidential emails. http://panthertalklive.blogspot.com/2008/02/three-months-later-and-theyre-still.html

Kyle Duerstein on Feb 11, 2008 at 09:02 PM:

I like to post two times...

Kyle Duerstein on Feb 11, 2008 at 09:02 PM:

...two times. ...two times. ...two times. ...two times. ...two times. ...two times. ...two times. ...two times.

Brian Averill on Feb 11, 2008 at 10:30 PM:

Johanan, you can speak as abstractly and theoretically as you want, but when you actually look at history (at least American) you find many injustices at the hands of white heterosexual men.

Start with genocide, move on to humans viewed as property, voting rights, etc.

There's plenty of injustice in American inequalities.

Daniel V. Bahr on Feb 11, 2008 at 11:00 PM:

Jay

You Said-

"Meanwhile, the total funding for athletics is $70+ per student. No member of the Student Aristocracy even mentioned cutting other programs like athletics and with good reason. No program deserves to be under-funded, from the football team to the LGBT programs."

Then you said-

"Dan - Nothing was in this editorial about an increase to athletics. I am sorry, you must have misread. But I am excited that my "student aristocracy" term is catching on."

I think your term the “student aristocracy” is funny, but you should attend some of the meetings. I have spent the better part of the first semester advocating for cuts to athletics. From the football team to LBGT and everything in between, I feel we need cuts. We are simply pricing people out. I do not feel we are dealing with critical oppression on campus. Sorry, I know you will say I am wrong, but I just don’t agree with you. We can still have a WRC and LBGT center at a lower rate. They do good work; we just don’t need multiple staff members. UWM can get by with one director per center. This would be sufficient in my opinion. Athletics: They need big cuts. This is clearly a bloated wasteful entity. Let’s be real. I do not feel this way because I am anti-women or anti-gay. That is simply not true. I simply feel that a decrease in student fees would make post secondary education more accessible. Segregated fees are out of control!!!

Daniel V. Bahr

Daniel V. Bahr on Feb 12, 2008 at 12:51 AM:

With regard to the $.070 increase to athletics which I referenced, you are correct: I misread.

Richard Lowenstein on Feb 12, 2008 at 07:45 AM:

Why is that THE WHITE MAN is ALWAYS being oppressed?!?!!?

Allyson Wartick on Feb 12, 2008 at 08:42 AM:

"The attitude and actions of the “Student Association” in no way makes them seem as if they are in “association” with the students. Rather than acting for and with the students, they are abusing their power and going against the constituents they represent. For the sake of accuracy, I will refer to them throughout this article as the “Student Aristocracy”.

...So, as usual, rather than actually getting out and getting onto the senate, you're sitting at your keyboard writing what is in your opinion scathing commentary on something that happened close to two months ago.

If you really want to change the system, get off your computer and get a senate nomination form. Until then, don't talk to us about how we're not changing the system. We have senate vacancies, however, people like you would rather sit and complain about stale issues than get out and run.

"Shortly after these actions, the members of the Student Aristocracy were bombarded with e-mails from University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee students. Most, if not all, of the e-mails were telling the members that they made a bad decision and they should rethink their actions. "

In contrast to the statement that, "Fair is when a group pretends to democratically represent a diverse student body of 25,000 after receiving a whopping 1,199 votes."

Well, I'd be willing to say that when we were "bombarded by e-mails" we didn't really receive that many... in contrast to the number of voters who turned out for us, and in even larger context of the student body.

We're getting out and running to change things, because we actually put our money where our mouth is and believe we can make UWM a better place. We've been elected by a sound majority of those who turned out to vote, and so we're putting policies in place and taking action in light of the support our voters showed for us at the polls. There may be some who disagree with what's going on, but the majority is still going along with what we're doing.

If you don't like it, get out and change it.

Johanan Raatz on Feb 12, 2008 at 10:33 AM:

"Johanan, you can speak as abstractly and theoretically as you want, but when you actually look at history (at least American) you find many injustices at the hands of white heterosexual men."

"Start with genocide," voting rights,

The idea that Europeans who came here were predominantly genocidal is an exaggeration at the very least. Yes some Europeans who cam here weren't very nice. The conquistadors for example behaved as typical conquerors, and John Smith was a jerk. However this is not atypical for human behavior in general. When you look at the actual history of America both European settlers and the Native Americans predominantly behaved like like a watered down version of the common stereotypes. Remember the conquistadors killed the Aztec king in cold blood, but the Aztec king and the entire Aztec aristocracy was responsible for the mass ritual sacrifice of many of the neighboring peoples. This is completely compatible with human nature though, but the idea that somehow the white man is responsible for everything bad and evil in the world is, pardon my French, complete bullshit.

"move on to humans viewed as property,"

Yes white people had slavery, but so did most every other society on the planet. I would like to say that Western civilization was the first to eliminate it though and was the primary motivator behind it being eliminated elsewhere. Maybe "eurocentrism" is a good thing afterall.

"voting rights,"

Seeing whereas western civilization invented democracy in the first place, and America has since then championed it you have no right to complain. Yes no human society is perfect but it is illogical to bite the hand that feeds you.

"There's plenty of injustice in American inequalities."

If you define injustice in a Rawlsian sense then yes. However, Rawlsian theory is defective on numerous levels. If you want to define it based on critical theory then also yes, but critical theory is even worse than Rawlsian theory.

Thomas Jefferson on Feb 12, 2008 at 11:38 AM:

Commit acts of sedition!!

Department of Homeland Security on Feb 12, 2008 at 12:21 PM:

"Commit acts of sedition!!"

Go for it. See what happens. :)

Paul Revere on Feb 12, 2008 at 01:11 PM:

The DHS has no power when compared to the authority the SA and their mighty new Sedition Act!

Down with tyrants!!

DHS on Feb 12, 2008 at 02:21 PM:

"The DHS has no power when compared to the authority the SA and their mighty new Sedition Act!"

The DHS maintains security for the SA.

"Down with tyrants!!"

LOL Hobbesian executives are really cool!

F.K. on Feb 12, 2008 at 02:54 PM:

I just feel the need to comment on this. The Women's Resource Center is there to help the women who are raped by some moron who couldn't keep it in its pants. It is a good resource, and the fact that it is immediately available to students on campus is exactly what is needed. To callously say 'Let them look in the yellow pages' is disheartening, to say the least. We had this same debate last year right before these centers were saved at the last minute, and it seems like the arguments never change. Saving tuition money is good, but actually having resources on campus to make the people who pay their tuition money feel safe and comfortable is important, too. Though I too am just another person sitting at a keyboard complaining, it's also disheartening to see so many people saying 'Well if you don't like it then join us'. The people in the Senate are supposed to be looking out for the students, sitting there and telling people that they shouldn't bother voicing their opinions in favor of just joining the group is ridiculous. The UWM Post, I think, has much more student influence than the Senate does, and the fact that such things are published in this paper gives people necessary information for when they decide to vote for the next batch of senators.

Fictitious Rag on Feb 13, 2008 at 05:45 AM:

"The UWM Post, I think, has much more student influence than the Senate does, and the fact that such things are published in this paper gives people necessary information for when they decide to vote for the next batch of senators. "

Yeah, like the series of two articles on Students for a Responsible Government... first the propaganda with no basis to it, then the "woops we *(^@$d up" article afterwards.

Sports is still good though.

let's be fair on Feb 13, 2008 at 12:18 PM:

in all fairness, maybe we should cut the funding even more, that way it will better level out the playing field for the straight people, white people, and men. notice how I didn't say straight white man. Jay, you really need to stop being socialist for the sake of being social because let's face it, outside of your group of SDS cronies, most people probably think you're an idiot. I would tend to agree.

let's be even more fair. on Feb 13, 2008 at 01:21 PM:

oh yeah "let's be fair," well i think you smell like rotten eggs, and everyone with a sense of smell would probably agree.

so there.

Johanan Raatz on Feb 13, 2008 at 03:09 PM:

If were going to be fair about these resource centers we should add in an Army Recruiting Center in the Union.

Johanan Raatz on Feb 13, 2008 at 03:43 PM:

And to put my money where my mouth is, I am going to enlist tomorrow morning. I will not be posting anything else until I get back from Iraq.

Johanan Raatz (the real Johanan Raatz) on Feb 13, 2008 at 04:02 PM:

Identity theft is against the law you know.

"And to put my money where my mouth is, I am going to enlist tomorrow morning. I will not be posting anything else until I get back from Iraq."

Actually I won't because I have a history of epilepsy and as such they won't allow me.

Now before you try shooting off the chickenhawk ad hom fallacy again you should think before putting your other foot in your mouth.

Johanan Raatz on Feb 13, 2008 at 05:58 PM:

Yeah, what he said.

let's be fair on Feb 14, 2008 at 05:32 AM:

So you think I smell like rotten eggs? hmm, you seem to have missed something, oh yea, you are behind a computer screen posting under multiple different names, trying to make it seems like people care what you have to say. well you sir, are rather pathetic but that's alright, while you sit in denial of the truth, I will be informing others about it. I hope that someday you'll realize that you have no life outside of D&D and bitching about why the Gov't should be responsible for taking care of you and paying your way through life. So while you and the rest of you SDS buddies continue your act of being socialists for the sake of being social irritating those who walk by, there are a dozen more gun toting, red blooded Americans here to make sure problems don't arise. no don't be stupid and take this as a threat because I don't need to hide behind a computer screen if I ever make them.

FK on Feb 14, 2008 at 01:14 PM:

Ok, what the hell. Are you people 12? Oooo look at me, big man talking trash from computers, then making fun of the people who do the same. This issue isn't about the penis measuring contest that you two seem to be engaged in, this issue is about whether our Senate has the best interests of ALL students at heart. Great, you saved us a couple hundred bucks on tuition. Now how about the girl who gets date raped and finds out that no one is at the Women's Resource Center when she goes for help? I don't think a couple hundred dollars each is a worthy sacrifice. Cutting budget means cutting hours, there is no two ways around it and I hate that these organizations which are of such vital importance are being shafted so that we have more cash to spend on booze.

Dan on Feb 14, 2008 at 04:52 PM:

I would agree with the immaturity point FK, however, I disagree with your comment on the WRC. While I fully agree that women should have a place to go for cases like rape, I believe that the position cut is not vital to the WRCs operation. There are other places for women to go in times like that as well such as the Norris Health Center. While rape is very horrible, and those guilty of causing it should be punished very severely, a center whose focus isn't only on helping in situations such as rape and domestic violence shouldn't rely on student funding. If the center itself is such a valuable entity, than why isn't it being funded at the requested funding level by the university or even still, why hasn't the university stepped in to and make up the difference?

FK on Feb 14, 2008 at 08:53 PM:

I respectfully disagree, and the point was made earlier that pieces of student tuition also funds UWM sports. Though I do partake of these services and so do not mind, there are many who don't, and they are also paying for me to enjoy the Klotschke facilities. Unfortunately, having had to go to Norris once or twice, I do not have much faith in their ability to handle certain situations. While rape kits, etc, should be taken care of at Norris, they seem to lack the human touch which I think is so integral to post-rape recovery. While I support the GLBT community on this campus, I am a bit less concerned on the issue of their funding because I have yet to hear of a single instance of a crime against a person over their sexual orientation. Rape, domestic abuse, and other women's issues are however common problems on college campuses, and so I do feel that the adequate funding and attention needs to be given to this center. Our campus is luckier than most in terms of our safety, but considering the prevalance of rape and domestic violence in general, I think that it's irresponsible on the part of the Senate to cut back funding for it. It's like saying that just because California didn't have an earthquake for a year, they never will. And I would like to know why the university has not stepped in, as well.

Veronica Smith on Feb 16, 2008 at 10:26 AM:

Well, without funding sports, there would be no more sports section in the post, which is the only section of the post I ever really care to read.

SA PLEASE DONT CUT FUNDING TO ATHLETICS!!

I can live without funding to the resource centers, just don't take away the only stomachable section of our student newspaper!

Veronica Smith on Feb 16, 2008 at 10:33 AM:

"a very high member of the Student Aristocracy (who will remain anonymous) even admitted there is sexism and outright bigotry within the Senate. She/he elaborated on the fact that many members of the SA frequently voice their strong sexist views in Senate meetings."

...one more thing, is your name Amanda Throm??

Sounds like another bull$h!t article I read two weeks in a row from "Anonymous" SA sources, which really means that someone in the office for The Post concocted more BS.

Even if there was a member of the SA, you can find just about anyone in SA with an opinion that will match more.

Interpretation does not = FACT!

One person's bigotry is another's life experience. for being so liberal I would think you'd understand people have varying perspectives.

Abortionist or Murderer? Terrorist or "Freedom Fighter"

it's in perspective. Just because you found someone with a varying perspective does not make it an absolute truth. Nice try.

Max J. on Feb 17, 2008 at 07:41 PM:

So, we'd rather save students less than $5 instead of providing legal help for rape victims? Ok, just getting it straight.