I am writing in support of Governor Scott Walker’s proposed simplification of union negotiations. Wisconsin taxpayers have overpaid state employees for far too long.
It is unsustainable to have a starting wage of $13 an hour for a food service worker, custodian or receptionist. Such jobs are readily learned, and performance is easily quantifiable to eliminate deficient workers.
I know this, because I worked as a student dishwasher for $6.50 an hour alongside non-student custodians, who were paid twice my wage but spent half their time sitting in the break room.
I mentioned this discrepancy to my supervisor, but she refused to do anything out of fear of reprisal. I then spoke directly to the various workers (after my shift, of course) and received responses ranging from derision to mere smirking. Obviously, they considered clocking eight hours for only four hours of real work to be an entitlement. Such an approach would get a student worker or any private-sector employee fired within days.
Rather than continue the generosity of Great Depression-era payroll and benefits, which should have ended in the 1940s, Walker’s proposal will reduce incentives for those who cannot make it in the private sector to use public employment as a golden crutch.
Simplifying negotiations also saves time and money for the human resources and labor representatives involved, as fewer variables are in dispute. A multitude of comparable packages is distilled into a clear take-it-or-leave-it sliding scale.
We can reduce even further the payroll expenses of our public sector employees. Use more student workers for non-managerial state and municipal positions, including the classified UW System positions, such as custodian and receptionist. This would leverage the natural turnover of the student population to minimize accrual of raises, and even better, the student workers may be dismissed without unemployment benefits. This is already the norm for students who work on campus. Why not extrapolate the model to other publicly funded positions?
We may implement this model by attrition. Upon retirement or transfer of a union employee, the state or municipality could change the position eligibility to students-only and lower the pay grade accordingly. This would also grant students real-world labor experience, which helps the typical liberal arts graduate advance occupationally more than most social science degrees do. There is no shortage of student job seekers to replace those public employees who balk at what they’re paid to perform jobs that require a questionable modicum of talent. Those who insist on unsustainably generous compensation will shortchange the next generation, because businesses and consumers alike vote budget-cutters, like Walker, into office when labor demands are too onerous.
Those who complain about diminished opportunities to workers of reduced intellect have evidently not considered the ease of obtaining admission and financing for most UW System schools and MATC programs. Many students transfer from community colleges because they didn’t get into their university of choice, and educational lenders welcome all except those with the worst credit scores. In other words, virtually any blue-collar person can get a degree these days to qualify for white-collar positions. State departments need not be an employment crutch for anyone, not even highly unemployable people.
Joseph Ohler Jr. is a UWM alumnus and graduate of the public administration program.
Well, I was going to take advantage of the taxpayers, but you broke my “golden crutch!” Foiled!
Personally, I am a bit offended that you have painted all unionized state employees as taking advantage of the state system for employment because they are unqualified to work in the private sector.
You may have personal experience with some people like that, but please make a distinction between the hard workers and the freeloaders. As a future state employee I would prefer if you didn’t depict me as someone trying to take advantage of some sort of gravy train, because that couldn’t be farther from the truth.
What a choice example: Union custodians…Is he serious? To make such a sweeping statement based on union custodians is completely insane. I’m surprised the post published this joke letter. According to Ohler we get good state employees by constantly cycling through new ones. Follow the leader, follow Ohler and see where that will get you. Unemployed, over educated, and in debt.
The issue is not whether state employees are being overpaid. The issue is what kind of world do we want to live in. A value-free, Ohler Society, where everyone lives life like a Union Nomad? Or a value-added life where we get time to be with our families and aren’t worked to an early grave making rich some sick fuck who refuses to pay taxes on his yatch, letting only his suntan lotion trickle down, to where his Guatemalan lady-boy house-slave licks it off the deck.
I’m not sure who this Joe Ohler is but it’s clear that he is bitter at state employees for some reason. Yes, some state employees are lazy. But guess what. So are a lot of private employees. So because there are a few bad apples in a state school custodial staff let’s cut bargaining rights for almost 150,000 state workers. Solid, logical thinking by the writer of this article. I guess all those overpaid lazy state school teachers (numbering about 100,000, who happen to vote about 70% DNC) will no longer have all that extra money that allows them to spend 5-10% of their income on school supplies for their classes (without ever getting any of that money back) and the children will have to suffer. It’s okay though, because those lazy janitors will finally learn that they have to work as hard as the students making $6.50. (Because students at UWM are famous for diligence and hard work, right?) Thanks for your input Mr. Ohler. Isn’t it great that we live in a country that allows ANYONE to say what they want? I used to laugh when people would propose the idea of mandatory IQ tests to qualify for voting, but the idea is gaining traction in my mind.
Ohler,
I respect your attempt to defend Walker’s “simplification” of busting up union negotiations but you’re overlooking the bill. Have you read it? I’m assuming not because your teeth are still crooked and your brain is still the size of my left testicle and probably just as functional considering mine doesn’t work anymore due to vein issues. You’re riding on a euphemism, my dear lad, and it’s just as pathetic as your YouTube channel, your run as SA Senator, and your attempt to become SA president. You’re going nowhere Ohler. Your argument has the buoyancy of a solid 20lb piece of iron in Lake Michigan. Take into account these pertinent issues: What Walker is doing is technically illegal. He’s not following fiscal procedures. Also, why on Earth would our Attorney General be investigating Walker for ethics violations if Walker is in the right? Don’t even try to defend this, saying that Van Hollen is a bleeding heart liberal because the judges in the Ethics Committee are nonpartisan so put that in your crooked face and try to chew it without cutting your gums.
You need to wake up. Conservative ideologies are all dying if not dead. Reagan turned 100 this year and that probably got your little peter so hard you spurted all over your keyboard during a pathetic little vlog that gets you so much harder after your 17th masturbation of the day. Back to Reagan: He was a joke of a president and all the dirt he started is finally getting light and people like you will soon realize that he was a fool who only cared about himself and wanted to breed out the minorities, dominate Central America, and leave as much money for his ice-cold tramp of a wife and the rest of his vampire family. Reagan would have laughed at you for even trying to follow his lead. You’re a speck of fecal matter compared to people like him and Walker would also laugh at you because your penis is the only one in the world smaller than his and it’s smaller because it’s inverted because if you don’t use your penis the way it’s intended to and if you just beat off into a sock everyday it inverts itself back into your body and you’re left with a small slit similar to a vagina. I’m sorry about your ailment, Ohler, but we all saw it in the shower. We all know your dirty little secret.
So, in conclusion: don’t bank on a euphemism to save you. Nobody likes you, therefore nobody will support you. The Right wing is under assault and you’re running out of cover and ammo. Better retreat or just call it quits.
See you at the dentist, nimrod.
-Dan
Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention that I’ve worked a public sector job for over three years and it’s a union job and I don’t make more than 9 dollars an hour. Just because Ohler had a $6.50/hr job thinks that every crappy job in the world consists of people in the break room not doing their job getting paid more than the dishwasher. Besides, your YouTube channel shows you singing like a little schoolgirl and I saw not but one moment of you actually doing your dishwashing job, buddy.
Have you ever had to work a job outside of UWM, Ohler? Probably not because you’ll be living with your parents for the rest of your life. If you knew anything about real people and their jobs, there’s hardly anyone making over 9 bucks an hour doing part-time gigs or custodial gigs or foodservice gigs. So your little ‘support’ of Walker’s idiotic bill is really coming from an isolated standpoint of foolishness. You don’t know what’s out there because you haven’t been there. If unions get busted up, I’ll probably lose the scrap paycheck I get for busting my ass so that yuppies and suburbanites can eat organic produce. Try thinking before you speak, Ohler, and it won’t be so painful to look in the mirror everyday.
-Dan
@David Freitag – Considering the objective of my op-ed was to persuade readers into embracing the cost effectiveness of using student workers for non-managerial, non-instructor jobs in the public sector, I had to imply such a generalization.
@Brant – Yes, I’m as serious as that Journal-Sentinel op-ed using a university professor as a generalization of public union workers.
@Quincy – Thank you for evincing the most understanding out of all who have responded to my op-ed so far.
@Ace – Considering how only five people have responded negatively to my op-ed publicly, perhaps my idea isn’t as outrageous as you would think.
@Dan – Thank you for respecting my defense of the Walker proposal. I indeed read the 144-page PDF of JR1SB-11 and also note that it would require employees to pay ten times as much into their pensions and to pay a rate on their healthcare insurance to be negotiated by the Group Insurance Board. The bill also repeals many statutes pertaining to the Wisconsin Quality Home Care Commission.
I filmed that Youtube clip of myself and Ben Fisher singing while on lunch break. We remained on-site because we brought our own lunches to save on lunch expenses. You may view me actually working at my former dishwashing job in the following video, which won the 2009 United States Student Association Summer Job Testimonial Contest:
http://vimeo.com/5145138
It’s on Vimeo because USSA required that website for all submissions. Do you have anything more to say about the bill or about the proponents of the bill?
@ Ohler- You expect to get a lot of people caring about what an unemployed former dishwasher thinks about Wisconsin Politics? You do realize that the actual American political system is a lot more complex than attempting to run for the presidency of a college that, let’s face it, no one thinks of as the next Harvard? (On the “independent” ticket) I guess I thought you were actually pretty lucky to get this many comments. But apparently you think that people care about you/your ideas about how to run state government. Were you in Madison protesting for the bill last Saturday when Walker supporters (most of whom were from out of state. I know I was there and talked to many of them.) held their rally? Or do you only care enough about the issue to write an ill-informed, short, narrow-viewed article? You expect me to believe you read that bill? It doesn’t trouble you that the bill allows a Walker appointee in charge of Badgercare and that the appointee (at the behest of Walker) can shut down the program without passing any kind of bill or legislation, leaving thousands without healthcare. Not all of us are lucky enough to live at home and mooch off of our parents. Some of have to actually pay our way through life and can use a little help from time to time to make sure we don’t fall through the cracks (of your teeth).
Ohler. You’re still an idiot then. Even moreso considering you did read the bill and are in support of it. I don’t care about your award. I don’t care about anything you say regarding the bill because people like you are the reason this country has to keep lowering it’s standards. Your response is exactly what I expected: more conservative by-the-book nonsense that simply feeds a monster that should have been buried with reagan; more rhetoric from a cocky educated nerd who hasn’t the gall to support what’s right and would rather just support the party with a vengeance because of your need to belong. There are thousands of people at the capitol. Why? Not because walker is doing the right thing but because people are sick of being pushed around by jerkoffs with foolish selfish agendas. There are thousands yelling in madison because this is democracy not some ohler fantasy world. The fact you’re supporting the bill is ironic because you are an alumnus of a university and aren’t seeing the real picture here: you’re a moron and supporting this bill issimply for snakes and weasels. So yeah. That’s what I have to say so go get bent.
Necessity born of suffering is the mother of innovation.
There are many parts of this bill that I disagree with; the no-bid proposal on energy for example.
But when it comes to removing the collective bargaining ‘rights’ I stand behind that. Why? Because right now union bargaining has led to a status quo in education that lacks innovation in a failing system.
I cannot justify spending more or in some cases current spending levels for the pitiful results our system produces. The Wall St Journal published an article stating the average compensation in benefits + salary for MPS at just over $100,000.
Take the ‘right’ of unions to dictate how we run schools and their compensation scales away — and out of necessity we might finally see smarter and more innovative ways to educate.
Second, I think anybody should have the right to not pay union dues. Consider a young employee who is high performing in their job paying hundreds of dollars a year to be held back by union seniority rather than having than compensated on their merits. But then they are still first in line when cuts have to be made?!?!?
If our system is reformed and starts producing at acceptable level I will be the first in line to vote to protect those responsible and compensate them like their performance dictates.
Ohler, what planet are you living on? Who in the hell are you to say who is being overpaid or underpreforming? Who decides this? You? Scott Walker?
To compare all public employees to your experience as a student dishwasher is beyond laughable.
Seriously, this has to be the worse editorial I have ever read in the Post!
Your party’s arrogant, ascinine aproach to governing has energized the oposition. In fact you have done us a favor. You ostersized the moderates of your party and now many of them stand with us to watch you fall. Enjoy today because it won’t last. Thank you Scott Walker for proving us right!
Give tax breaks to the wealthy in the name of job creation, at the expense of everyone else. If America is fooled again by this con game, then we deserve what we get…
“only five people have commented negative opinions I must be right” What an incompetent nincompoop. Go have another bowl of fox news for breakfast, 700 club for lunch, and feed your megalomania for dinner by watching your mentally ill youtube channel.
Go stroke monarch Walker’s tuft of baby hair while whispering Reagan in his ear “senator” ohler. Maybe he’ll give you a job. HA!
@Ace – I did not protest because it is a waste of time. Neither legislators nor their aides tally how many times a crowd chants a particular policy platform. I judiciously used my time to write and call so that my input would go towards the pro-budget bill tally.
Regarding my qualifications, you can read in the byline that I am a graduate of the public administration program at UW-Milwaukee. Going beyond the byline, I also have the following qualifications, in reverse chronological order:
Student Service Record Certificate (2010)
National Winner, USSA Summer Job Testimonial Competition (2009)
Performance awards every semester at UWM Restaurant Operations (2008-2010)
Performance awards every semester at UWM Bookstore (2007-2010)
Two-time Johnson Foundation Wingspread Fellow (2007 & 2008)
Two-time Student Association Senator of the Year (2006 & 2007)
CVSL Volunteer of the Year (2005)
What awards have you won, “Ace?”
@Dan – It must have been torture for you to read the above enumeration of my accomplishments.
@Anon – I knew it was only a matter of time before another supporter of the bill’s principle commented. But why not use your real name? Are you afraid of the flames?
@CJ – Thanks for being civil.
@Brant – Not a bad idea. Thanks for feeding my megalomania!
I’m not sure ‘afraid’ is how I would phrase it. But I am leery of the fact that once you put something on the internet it is there for the rest of the world to see.
I don’t want my political views to effect any future opportunities I am seeking.
I’m always happy to dictate my views in person where intelligent debate can occur, but piecemeal political arguments via internet posts leave too much unexplained.
@Joe Ohler, Jr.
I admit, using student workers to replace more expensive unionized employees in positions that don’t require specialized training is very cost effective. Who can argue with saving money by simply hiring cheaper student workers who are willing to take the jobs at low wages when the older unionized workers retire? Who’s going to argue that abuse of the system made possible by the unions is a positive thing?
You’ve still only covered one angle of this debate though: you’ve completely ignored the impact these changes will have on other occupations that require more specialized training–what holds true for custodians and other lower wage, unskilled labor jobs does not necessarily hold true for other occupations.
What happens when the universities have difficultly recruiting quality university instructors because the state of Wisconsin is unable to pay competitive wages?
What happens to the public defender’s office and to those who have been convicted of a crime but are unable to afford a lawyer when the compensation for public defenders drops so low that there is a huge incentive to join the already over-saturated private sector lawyer market?
As a future teacher I have considered leaving the state of Wisconsin to teach in another state that offers more lucrative benefits. I would like to die a middle class homeowner who was able to put his kids through college, but if this bill passes, unless tax referendums are passed (unlikely?) I will earn the entry level teacher salary for the entirety of my career.
I don’t think anybody is going to argue with you that perhaps union reform needs to be looked at to protect abuses like the ones the custodians you worked with committed. However, this method of balancing the budget through union reform causes many, many other problems. The slashing of collective bargaining wasn’t even done to save the state money–it was done so that local municipalities will have an easier time adjusting to the deep cuts that Walker is proposing for the state budget. This will bring balance to budgets everywhere, but at a very, very high cost to the quality of the public institutions, and in effect the quality of life for most people in Wisconsin, union and non-union.
The fact that the only way to deal with the budget crisis that was considered was to enact cuts this damaging is what is really telling about this whole fiasco, and it’s what nobody is really talking about.
Here’s what I think Wisconsin should do: energy companies willing to take a modest and temporary 1 year increase (the budget deficit problem will disappear next year as the economy picks up, so 1 year is all that is necessary) in corporate taxes to help make up the state’s budget deficit will get priority for receiving one of those no-bid contracts for power plants that Walker is going to give out anyway.
Everybody can be happy: the budget problem will be solved, state money for new power plants will still go to Walker’s cronies in private business, and state workers and institutions will remain unharmed.
A few additional comments:
@Anon:
The average compensation for a teacher in MPS is around $86,000 (you can look this up on the WI DPI webiste, just search for “salary data”) including salary ($56,000), health benefits and pension ($30,000). Pension is really just deferred salary, not a handout from the state, although I guess however you look at it, it’s taxpayer money. This is relatively on par with what the private sector pays for a worker with a similar level of education and experience. Whether or not teachers should be paid more/less is a separate argument, but I would like to set the record straight on that often heard statistic, which is inaccurate.
@Joe, again:
I’d also like to add that although I disagree with your opinion on the budget bill, I find the personal attacks and vitriol that are being hurled at you for this editorial very unprofessional, discourteous and obviously offensive. Effective debate happens best when there is respect on both sides.
Let me first say something to David Freitag. This isn’t a debate. Ohler is a moronic imbecile trying to be subversive. It’s obvious there can be no debate because there should be no question in anyone’s mind that Scott Walker is unfit to be a Governor. I know who Ohler is as a person and I personally dislike him immensely. Seeing that a letter to the editor from the infamous Joe Ohler, Jr was published in the UWM Post, I took it as an opportunity to remind the world that once a man is a nerd, he will always be a nerd. So, Mr. Freitag, please don’t call me unprofessional. Ohler is a bad person. A rotten person. He doesn’t deserve the professional decency of an unbiased debate.
Now, Ohler. I’m not sure if you just never excelled past second grade grammar, but I told you I don’t care about your awards or accomplishments. As far as I’m concerned, none of those matter to me. I went to Syracuse University for a year and that already dwarfs all your petty accomplishments. Why did I leave? Because of privatization and the fact our chancellor raised tuition twelve thousand dollars in one year. Once again, conservative approaches to education cause people to seek out other options.
Also, all your ‘accomplishments’ are dwarfed again by the fact that you’re supporting Walker’s budget bill. You read it. You understood it. You still support it. Let me just leave you with a scenario. You are no different than a man who sits in a room while he is educated on the dangers of smoking crack-cocaine. Five minutes after the lecture, you find yourself on the street buying crack-cocaine and smoking it or perhaps shooting it intravenously because you seem like the kind of guy who likes to go balls out when he does something. Knowing all the dangers and risks of the drug and the fact that the isolated molecule of Crack is way more addictive than any other stimulant, the man still smokes/shoots it. Knowing that conservative ideology has never worked when it comes to appealing the masses, you still support the most neo-conservative issue Wisconsin has seen in a long time. Therefore, you are still a complete idiot who is only trying to be subversive to be subversive.
This is democracy. If you want fairy-tale Reaganism, build yourself a time machine and go back to the eighties and blow Ronnie in his oval office because all I’m seeing here is a dirty, snarly-toothed loser (virgin) with nothing to offer society but a fairly trite attitude…or should I say platitude.
If you have anything intelligent to offer, a way in which you could sway my opinion, I’d be much obliged, Joe, but this is going nowhere. You’re looking dumber and dumber the more you respond to me and the others so just quit while you’re behind because I’m sick of loosening the slack for you.
-Dan
@Dan,
I think personal attacks are unprofessional. People can be unprofessional, but right now I don’t want to assign labels to people. I only want to assign labels to conduct, and I think name calling is bad. Additionally, I’m not interested in talking about Joe Ohler’s integrity as a person or a writer, I’m interested in talking about the ideas he presents. Frankly, I could care less about his personal details and characteristics–I am only interested in the content of his editorial.
And I do think this is a debate, but not necessarily between Ohler and those who comment on this article. This online discussion is an extension of the larger debate occurring all around Wisconsin, and this is just one forum for it. I didn’t write what I wrote for the benefit of Joe Ohler, I wrote it for the benefit of the people who want to take the time to read it and become more informed.
Brant,
Your statement proves you to be rather ignorant as everyone is entitled to an opinion. Just because you think one way doesn’t mean anyone who doesn’t think your way means they can’t speak up.
Ace,
I don’t think Joe is bitter by using a personal example to further his point. It more so seems you’re the bitter one with your personal attacks.
Dan,
I read your first few comments and scanned your later comments and learned nothing other than you know how to insult someone which makes you come off just as ignorant as the rest of folks on here personally attacking someone for stating their opinion.
David,
Seems many of these ignorant students could learn something from you, at least you make a point when arguing your opinion and leave the insults for the playground.
As far as Brant and everyone else who’s bitterly commented on this, get off the f*cking band wagon.
Also, read your comments to this article, who seems to be quick to insult and be on the defense?
I’m not going to state my opinion one way or the other on this matter as I’d rather not be personally attacked and I’d rather not delve too deep into a political debate but if you’re going to argue a point, know what your point is.
Carrie, you are awesome.
That is all.
Lol @ Dan’s Bitterness. Sad =/
@David Freitag – I’m glad to see you walk through an argument relevant to the point of the op-ed, thereby contributing to the debate. Also, props for using your real name, which shows you stand behind what you write.
@Dan – Don’t cut me any slack. If you hate me that much, post away and boost my comment tally.
@Carrie – Although I don’t mind the flames, it is refreshing to hear someone call for civil discourse.
@Shaun – Thanks for supporting the call for civil discourse.
@Steve – It is ironic that no one has told me to my face that he or she hates me. I’ll let everyone infer why “Dan” held off on expressing his hatred until I had graduated and moved miles from campus.
@Carrie – Ignorant for not commenting on Anon or cj. As far as not telling which side you are on it is quite apparent in your choice comments: Republican.
@Ohler – Being a member of the lower class, what do you think about Walker’s 2 billion in tax cuts to the rich and big business thus doubling our deficit in the first place?
@ Ohler – Gloat with every comment megalomaniac
David Freitag: Okay. How about the Chiapas region in Mexico. Do you think that supporters of the Zapatista movement are just sitting around chatting online? Do you think that Lybians are going to passively debate about the state of their nation? No, man. They’re gonna get pissed. Ohler’s an idiot. A straight moron. He doesn’t deserve respect or courtesy because if he had the upper hand in this situation he wouldn’t give me any slack. He’s just trying to be funny and quirky because that’s who he is. This isn’t about the budget bill, this is about real life. We are all candy-coated little babies here in America. Nobody’s gonna get hurt and that’s why everyone’s having such a hey-dey with this forum. It’s just one big simulacrum for the nerds. Have fun with it because I am. If I were taking this seriously I wouldn’t be responding. I’m having a great time and you should be having a great time, too.
Carrie. Seriously? Need I repeat myself? I don’t like Ohler because he’s a vicious nerd. I’m using this forum as an opportunity to remind Joe that he’s grossly infatuated with himself and is more than likely mildly retarded because nobody in their right mind would support this bill. Ignorant? I’m not the one supporting Neo-Conservative policies here. I’m not watching FOX or CNN or any other nonsense and repeating palaver that I hear nor am I calling people ignorant for having opinions about other people. Just because you learned a new word today – ignorant – doesn’t mean everyone who makes you feel uncomfortable is ignorant. You’re probably just as weak as Ohler and that’s why you have nothing to say about the bill and that’s why you’re just siding with Ohler because he probably promised you the Ring of Mordor or a fairy tiara from the planet Geek.
Shaun: Please…*chuckling* rub your belly and make a wish, troll.
Steve: I’m not bitter, asshole. I’m just stating facts and if you are one of Ohler’s friends you probably lack a chromosome as well so I don’t care about your slanted smiley face but you put a big smile on my face.
Ohler: My real name is Dan. Don’t accuse me of using fake names here. If you want to hang out sometime, let me know. I’ll take you on a date and show you the time of your life, outside of your Neo-Conservative void. You haven’t answered any of my questions about Walker’s ethics violation or the 25K people in Madison. You’re not even looking at the facts here. You’re rallying up your other nerd friends and all you virgins are calling me bitter because why? Why don’t you all go to Madison with signs that say “I support Walker” ? Why don’t you go out and deliberate your Republicanism?
Oh, I know why. Because the Republican party is dead. It’s been dead for a while. It’s now conservatives and neo-conservatives rubbing each others’ backs for the sake of their own ‘communal’ private interest. Oxymoron. You all talk about private property and progress when you’re all borderline fascists who need a Christ figure to be your crutch. Well, in Ohler’s case it would be more of a set of braces or dentures.
It’s not like I repressed my feelings for you, Ohler. I just never cared enough to talk to you or waste my time with you because I knew you’d disappear to the suburbs after college to your parents’ house. I think about you everyday. I think about how our country is slowly dissolving and how people like you make me not want to have kids because I’d hate to have to explain to my daughter or son why people act like Joe Ohler. I’d say, “Well, son/daughter, it’s because our country messed up really bad. Our leaders allowed consumerism and capitalism and the internet to take over and that created the Neo-Conservative. What that basically means is that anyone with an insecurity or half a brain attitude can be either famous or accepted by society.”
“So, Daddy,” my son/daughter will ask. “Does that mean I can be famous?”
“No, sweetheart. You can’t because you’re beautiful. It’s the ugly, rotten, slimy weasels and cheats that make it in life. It’s the people who go to the business schools of our universities and suck the life out of everyone they come in contact with while claiming that literature and languages are pointless because America needs to fortify and secure its borders and domestic affairs.”
Steve, Shaun, Carrie, Ohler: You’re an infected Amoeba of Nerd virii. There is a vaccine, however, and it’s called Thought. Try it. I dare you. This discussion has become pointless and anyone supporting Ohler is simply amateur. I just don’t get how people can argue hard evidence. Walker’s budget bill is wrong. How can anyone argue with that? Seriously. There are many ways to fix a budget and Walker decides to take the most ridiculous approach possible. And Ohler? Really? People are siding with him? And Shaun and Steve are only getting boners because someone used a female name to ‘attack’ me, brant, quincy, etc and that’s just plain pathetic. But I wouldn’t expect anything less.
-Dan
@cj
You’re the man.
I am not a troll, I am a motherfucker. Youre argument is invalid. Now if you’ll excuse me I must go have non partisan sexual relations with Carrie while you think of new insults. Have a wonderful tomorrow :)
Oh,and fyi.. Carrie is a girl. And her breasts are awwwesome. Think about that while your pointlessly debating stupid shit online.
@Brant – It should promote business growth in Wisconsin, or at the very least motivate businesses to keep operations in Wisconsin. Mercury Marine almost left Oshkosh last year, and it is good fiscal policy to maintain and grow the base of business taxpayers by keeping business levy rates competitive.
@Dan – Thanks for letting me know of my daily presence in your mindshare! I also appreciate the link to my Youtube channel.
@Shaun – Well said!
Shaun: You’re an invalid. You suck at grammar. You just suck.
I feel sorry for Carrie for having to put up with a chump like you.
Ohler: Anything I can do to help you get that first boner.
Thank you everyone else allowing me to use this forum while recovering from Walkerian and Ohlerian Cancer.
-Dan
@Dan, and others following the discussion:
I think the conversation about how we talk about these things is very important.
There’s a very real difference between the spoken language someone might use while protesting in the street and the written language of public debate that I believe allows readers to gain understanding without being turned off by material because its tone is outside the range of respectful discourse. Obviously free speech lets you make personal attacks, but personal attacks do not give readers increased understanding of issues surrounding the budget bill, which is much more important than whatever (very) subjective insight someone can give us into the particular personal details of an author’s character.
Hurling insults also gives readers an excuse to call something biased when it may not be–it’s a cognitive kill switch–people question whether or not the argument of the insulter is true, because resorting to personal insults is a tactic used often by those who disagree with someone else’s decision but choose not to contribute anything meaningful to a discussion. Even if meaningful discussion is included in a comment that personally attacks someone, words that are used to insult a writer take up room that could be filled by words which will offer more understanding about a topic. You only get so many words. Use them wisely.
I don’t dispute the seriousness of this issue. If the budget bill gets passed it will literally alter the course of my life in significant ways and will force me to consider a range of options for my future that I never thought I would have to consider: 1) earn a much lower salary than I need to be comfortably middle class, 2) leave Wisconsin, or 3) leave teaching. None of them are particularly appealing to me. Whatever happens, I’m still going to be alright because I have been very fortunate and lucky enough to learn skills that will ultimately lead to my success, but for me this bill means big changes to what I thought I was going to be doing with my life. I am very personally invested in the outcome of this debate, but I still think that discussing the merits of the issues and not the character of those who write about them is the best way to give people more understanding, and more understanding is the only thing that’s going to fix this.
I use my real, full name because anybody can read what I am writing here and match it to who I am in real life. I do this because it gives me a very strong incentive to write only the highest quality, most respectful comments. It keeps me in line, and ensures I do my best to contribute to discussion in only the most meaningful ways I am capable. I believe this to be a good thing.
@Dan – Considering that you have admitted to “think[ing] about (me) every day” and to doing “anything to help (me) get that first boner,” as well as your invitation to “show (me) a good time,” you might do well to re-examine how you choose to express your feelings about me, lest you misrepresent yourself with irony.
@David Freitag – Eloquently said! Short of apologizing for labeling you (as a self-professed future civil servant) as imminently cost-inefficient, I respect your propensity to publicly reason while holding yourself accountable to civility. And who knows, you might be one of the hardest-working civil servants. I won’t rule it out.
While I don’t enjoy the name-calling part, I have to agree that Ohler is wrong on so many levels. For one, policies of drastic cuts never stimulated economic growth. You cannot develop the economy if you impoverish and kick your customers out of their jobs.
But then again, the mentality is if I have (or had) a crappy experience, everybody else should suffer too. This is what Ohler is telling us.
P.S: Ohler, I’m telling my students not to think they are from some kind of elite compared to the “workers of reduced intellect.”
@PM – If the displaced workers truly are of comparable intellect relative to college grads, they should have as easy of a time re-training for their next careers as the college grads do.
For me, retraining/recertification in another state is only easy in the sense that I know I am capable of completing whatever course of study I need to in order to be able to work somewhere else.
The financial burdens of additional years (beyond the first 5 needed to get an education degree in the first place) in college/grad school are not easy at all, in addition to the fact that every additional year spent in college is a year where you spend thousands of dollars rather than make thousands of dollars.
Money that someone needs to spend paying for additional college is money that can’t be put toward savings or retirement. Because of compound interest, saving money for retirement now when I am young is very cost effective. Every year I pay out thousands of dollars in tuition money is a year I can’t put money into my retirement account, and these are the most crucial years to do so. Basically what I am trying to say is that the costs of retraining extend well beyond the immediate tuition and time.
The macroeconomic ramifications of this policy are likely to be pretty significant, as they were when Reagan cut collective bargaining. Rather than seek to fix the deficit by increasing taxes modestly and temporarily on the group of people so wealthy they wouldn’t even notice the money was gone, Walker has chosen to significantly reduce the spending power of a very large group in the middle class. There are economic consequences to this particular strategy, and those consequences will not help the state economy to grow.
@David Freitag – I agree with you on the costs of foregone wages, foregone investments, and incurred debt when one gambles on the investment of higher education. A primary issue for many contemplating college is the likelihood of a given economic return in exchange for the economic opportunity cost and the challenge of fitting adequate study time into non-work periods (especially for those whose work does not involve slow periods sitting at a desk). I presume these opportunity costs are exacerbated by parenthood because time spent raising one’s children then also becomes a possible sacrifice in this multi-faceted opportunity cost.
So I sympathize with your most recent post, except for my respectful disagreement with how to develop Wisconsin’s economy. Unemployment numbers for the next four quarters should be quite telling.
@Ohler: This reminds me of the saying, “A CEO, union worker, and non-union worker are at a table with a baker’s dozen. The CEO takes twelve cookies and tells the non-union worker, ‘The union guy wants all of your cookie.’” What have the corporations done for you to win your support? Someone who washes dishes for minimum wage, yet calls for reduced bargaining power with employers, sounds like he has Stockholm Syndrome.
@Lindy – I’m flattered that you, Ace, Dan, and others have tried to psychoanalyze me for the ides presented in my op-ed. Stockholm Syndrome is when a captive identifies with his or her captor. I consider an employer to be an opportunity giver, rather than a captor. Being unable to secure employment would more closely approximate captivity.
I find the narrative that everyone who is for this legislation is also pro-corporate greed to be incredibly simple minded.
Both public unions and corporate interests need to be neutered to some degree. Pensions would be in a much better place if the economy didn’t take a tumble — but there is also a ton of excess in compensation structure of unions as well.
For example the health insurance program for teachers charges way above market value on its plans, which are essentially a union monopoly.
The Green Bay district has a teachers ‘emeritus’ program where working a couple weeks per year in retirement secures a 1/3 of their salary for three years. So somebody who retired at 60k gets 20k for 10 days of work or $2000 per day. In other words, 10 days per year over 3 years would secure $60,000 for that retiree.
Obviously on the other end you have CEO’s with golden parachutes and low effective tax rates on wealthy individuals.
Either way, you have corporate and union systems built with largely hard-working and honest individuals with a minority taking advantage of the systems.
On a last note, I appreciate people like David who do take the time and effort to engage in intellectual debate rather than name calling. Spitting fire at the other side only shuts people down — I know I personally can’t handle much more of this shouting match that lacks any progression in the narrative.
@Anon(3) – Thank you for sharing that nugget about teacher pensions. Regarding CEO compensation, tax journalist David Cay Johnston found that deferred compensation, such as stock options, typically comprises 50% to 80% of a CEO’s annual compensation. This strategy delays taxation until those stock options are exercised, and further placing those options into a trust creates the ability to have the estate tax apply instead of the income tax. Considering how the additional tax money would have been spent, I consider the biggest downside to be how the reliance on continued company performance to fund those many years of deferred compensation diverts from re-investment in the company.
Joe, to follow up what you were saying I agree that when it comes to truly wealthy individuals and their compensation — a minority of that compensation comes in the form of taxable income.
Instead you have stock options and defered compensation packages that can be manuvered into tax shelters or written off in things like long term capital gains which for example have a top tax rate of 15% right now. Compared to 25% income tax rate on a single individual making $40,000 per year. Hardly seems fair.
That is one example of a typical republican issue I would like to see addressed.
Joe: Ask me why I came back…and no, it wasn’t to reply to you. Your teeth spoke to me through a dream. They were gnawing at a child that was half-born. You were aborting a child that was at 7 months in utero. I thought you were Pro-Life, Pro-Jesus-in-my-anus, Pro-Stupid.
You can’t be serious…are you? I was only playing with you. If you were expecting me to make the move to perhaps get us to second base, well then you are wrong. I didn’t mean to lead you on, I just thought it would help you on your day-to-day path to hopefully moving out of Wisconsin to a small clinic out West where they treat people with Asperger’s. See you at the puzzle table, Ohler.
-Dan
@David Freitag
I’m not really concerned with what you have to say about insults. I don’t like to repeat myself and that’s what I find myself doing on this forum because nobody can read, obviously. Ohler is a Nazi, David. We’re trying to stop him from taking over the world with his destructive ego. Nobody really wants this budget bill passed because nobody’s really to benefit from it. Ohler’s just being Funny-Guy-Fun-Time because he’s mentally handicapped. Just play along or toss insults. It doesn’t matter. He won’t take it personally because he doesn’t have a limbic system. So, once again, justify your stance but I don’t care. I don’t respect Ohler at all. He doesn’t deserve respect he deserves being spoon fed at a mental hospital for all Neo-Conservative or Ohlerian Cancer-infected persons. If you and I engaged in a debate I’m sure we could deliberate and discuss ideas without insults being lobbed back and forth but the argument here is: How can I stop Ohler? That’s all I’m concerned with so I thank you for your rhetoric but I still don’t like the slimy Joe Ohler and never will.
@Dan – Your words say that you want to “stop” me, yet your actions (continuing to post on my article) further promote me. I know that if I want to bump a link to my article onto the UWM Post home page, all I need to do is reference you, and just like an obedient slave, you will comment anew on your psychological master to get in the final 500 words or so. This conveniently advertises my article on every page of the UWM Post until five newer comments are posted. So post again, chess pawn.
Joe.
You are
absolutely
wholly
sincerely
abhorrently
pathetic.
I’m not a pawn, I’m a rook, and I took your Queen on my third move so go home and don’t even try to make it look like you’re on top with this one. You’re an idiot. An absolute joke. You’re supporting a farce of a man man who is Governor and he doesn’t even have a college education.
Do what you do. Advertise yourself. I don’t care.
I was expecting to get into an intelligent discussion about the bill but all you did is retreat a little bit then come back with nerd comments. I mean, seriously. Do you really think you’re cool by explaining to me what you do with this? I have like 15 friends who visit this page and one of them told me the other day you inferred that I was gay. I’ve probably had my face in more vagina than you’ve ever even dreamed of seeing. I had to write back. It was so funny. The people I’ve showed this garbage to think you’re one of the dumbest people on earth and they’ve all laughed at your letter to the editor as well as your postings. If I dare show them your YouTube page it’s “covering-their-mouth-with-their-hand-laughter” that goes on for minutes even after I’ve turned the video off because they beg me to stop. “Is this guy serious?” they say about you.
An obedient slave?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH
Fuck you, Ohler. Seriously.
Get all the exposure you want. Once your audience expands from the 900 nerds you know on Facebook and the Net, you’re going to expose yourself as what you really are: a mentally-retarded virgin nerd who needs new teeth more than starving African children need food.
And that’s that.
-Dan
Ohlerian Cancer Survivor
@Dan – Thank you for proving me correct; you did exactly what I enticed you to. And you flatter me by mentioning my “900” friends in comparison to your “15” friends. But maybe you should consult a better insult book before your inevitable response. You’re dismissing the situation as a “joke” because you’re losing, Dan. You picked an unfavorable target because you always have, and always will, come across as the clear loser in terms of how much time you spend typing responses, checking again, and typing responses, all in an attempt to “stop” me. You have failed to put me in remission. What does your daughter think about your failure to halt my progress?
Right now I have competing job offers from Fortune 500 companies. Every time you post is another window showing why I’m better. You should stay up until 11:59 p.m. this Sunday to get in the last word, as then comments will be disabled for this article. You’ll also set a good example for your daughter: Never give up, even if it is a futile waste of resources, whether impotently marching or trying to dissuade followers on an Internet forum.
I don’t hold it against Walker that he withdrew from Marquette once he understood he wouldn’t need the degree to achieve his occupational goals. He has a team of advisors experienced with right-sizing government and hence is free to commit to his role as figurehead.
I suppose Fortune 500 companies are constantly competing to hire the cheapest janitors money can buy. Nice attempt at being a braggart about 900 facebook “friends”. How many of these people have you actually had a two way conversation with? How many have you touched? This post, like many that you have penned in this reply forum simply show us your grandiose sense of self-importance and inability to see the world how it is. Step outside yourself and take a look around, Ohler.
@Brant – Due to confidentiality agreements, I cannot name the companies. However, I can generally describe the opportunities: sales analyst at a business-to-business security firm, and regulatory specialist at a business-to-consumer electronics firm. Definitely more profitable than being a janitor! And Dan was wrong, my FB friends are now under 600 because I’ve been removing those who don’t fit personal interaction criteria. It is entertaining correcting the uninformed comments of those who don’t know me. It begs the question as to why you don’t describe your education or occupation. At least Dan, sorry as he is, had the gumption to divulge that information.
Joe Ohler’s job prospects have absolutely nothing to do with the bill that ended public employee collective bargaining.
Heil Öhler, der Autor der Aufwiegelungtat, das modern Ăquivalent die Reimtūcke Gesetze! Er ist zuverlässiger Krieger und liebenswert Kerl von die Volksgenessen.
Joe dropped me off his FB list! WAAAAA
He was more of a trophy friend, which is why I never wrote a response to his messages, although to be fair I’m the one who added him, so why wouldn’t why I write back? Oh yeah, because he’s a trophy friend who no one does anything with to affect their mental image of the guy. You go Joe, keep taking friends off your list until you have none.
Typical leftist personal attacks. You know you won once that happens.